the fiscal cliff was a semi-serious situation. this is a very serious situation. >> what you've got, these two things coming together, the cliff and the debt ceiling, you'll have market reactions that reinforces the sense of unpredictability. if you're an investor, if you're running a business, what you want to know is what the playing field is. you want to know what the rules are. nobody knows anything. it means basically things begin to come to a halt. internationally, it raises all sorts of questions about our competence, our seriousness, our reputation. and these are people who are investing here, who are providing us also with the means to float the deficit. these are the people providing a lot of our financing. well, at some point if this goes on long enough, they begin to think, hold it. >> who's writing a lot of our financing? >> mainly foreign governments as well as markets. holding on to treasuries and the rest. so the question, then, at some point do they go, hold it. if these guys aren't serious, why am i depending upo